Fruit Cart Flicks
Fruit Cart Flicks
Apocalypse Now: Final Cut - Part 1
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Ken and I delve into "Apocalypse Now: Final Cut" with a close look at its source material, “Heart of Darkness”. Ken takes a stab at three actor impersonations from Mike.
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Well, folks, it's certainly was a privilege to do a dedication episode did a great Ennio Morricone. And it was wonderful to hear Ken regale us with both his memories and so much attention to detail with his legacy and life. So, so we thought we returned to the original format we put together previously, which was just quite simple. Talk about a movie leisurely, and take apart some things. reference the source material if it isn't adaptation, or just find certain things that we'd like to talk about. So in a way we go, here's part one, part two will probably come out a couple episodes later, we thought we just in between do something a little more topical. And perhaps if something comes up from one of our listeners that they would like, whether it's a movie that perhaps has a theme that's related to what's going on in the world right now, or something else that they just have in mind, that perhaps even correlates to what we discussed before. So off we go, folks. Thanks for joining for the ride. And let's start. All right, and away we go. Ken, you're back so soon working man.
Ken Tabacchi :It's nice to be with you again virtually.
Michael Green :And we took us midweek or we recorded a midweek session to honor the great Maestro, Ennio Morricone and, and I thought we just jump right back into the meat and potatoes with movies and a few segments here and there, but we're going to go light on the segments because we want movies that you love and that we love and we want to just literally talk about them. So okay, what I want to do is I want to start off with a little bit I don't know the title This segment anyway but I'm just gonna say corrections corner correction section or something like that. But in the in the Ennio Morricone tribute, I mentioned that the once upon a time in America soundtrack has 23 tracks and in fact does not it as 15. However, once upon a time in the West has 27 and I most likely confused the two.
Ken Tabacchi :Yes, and I've been listening to once upon a time in the West soundtrack and the good the bad and the ugly soundtracks. So I haven't been able to get to once upon a time in America or Malena, or anything else yet.
Michael Green :I was listened to Melena tonight and once upon a time in America just for taking notes and a little bit of research always puts him in a good mood.
Ken Tabacchi :On Friday, I had a sweet weightlifting session to excess ecstasy of gold. Which is the standoff scene from good, the bad and the ugly. Oh,
Michael Green :nice. Yeah, nice. Just filling your earholes
Ken Tabacchi :for sure.
Michael Green :Okay, well, you know I, for this episode, I want to do kind of an impersonation segment sandwich. So I'd like to start off with something before we jump into talking about Apocalypse Now, which will be the final cut, which was released last late last year. And I'm excited because the cut before that was Redux in 2003, I believe. Didn't see that. Glad This came around. The timing couldn't be better. I saw it a couple of weeks ago or last week, actually. Okay. And actually, I I finished the movie and then I watched the last 30 minutes again, as it's highly hallucinatory, and there's some checks juxtapositions there to discuss later on, but let's just jump into the recording the impersonations I have for you Ken i doesn't know
Ken Tabacchi :the favorite section of this podcast.
Michael Green :Don't have a title yet, but I want to jump into it. And what I'm going to have you do is just guess. We're not going to do a point system but I'll figure out some bonus for you. I mean, you get the yay or nay? The bell For the forget ever All right, but a bonus if you guess what movie came from?
Ken Tabacchi :And how many of you have prepared
Michael Green :three Okay, and it's only fair to mention to our listeners that I pre work I pre recorded these so I thought well, here I am trying to keep my body completely stationary not to make any noise and do an impersonation, but I have to be very broad with my gestures. It helps in doing the doing the impersonations.
Ken Tabacchi :This is your method acting.
Michael Green :Yes. Okay, I don't think it's my a game. But I kind of custom made this for you, given the content that we have covered in the past couple episodes. So here we go. Here we go. Here's number one. Are you ready? Make sure it's not gonna blast your earhole. hoo constrictive, the I can't even hold my arms. circa 1994 is the only hint I'll give you.
Ken Tabacchi :I want to say john malkovich in rounders.
Michael Green :Wow, you have the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon thing going because you're on that pathway.
Ken Tabacchi :bleeping thanks for editing out my mistake in that last week. Yes the emphasis on bacon.
Michael Green :Okay, listen to again, Too constrictive. I can't even hold my arms
Ken Tabacchi :94? doo doo doo make out Glover's off
Michael Green :but you're on there. Wow is my accent Russian it's Hungarian by the way.
Ken Tabacchi :Oh I was thinking the guy from rocky 4
Michael Green :the reason you're close is because the type the movie you mentioned, rounders has the actor in it who is doing that line
Ken Tabacchi :it's not john Turturro
Michael Green :same generation as john malkovich.
Ken Tabacchi :malkovich Oh is he like the bodyguard or the bouncer. Nope.
Michael Green :Okay, I'll give it to you.
Ken Tabacchi :There was a gangster
Michael Green :much older much in the in the spa. Okay, here's what I'll give you the actor. They gotta tell me the movie, too. So get it right. The actor is my fake drumroll, Martin Landau.
Ken Tabacchi :Martin Landau.
Michael Green :And the answer is Ed Wood 1994 he played Bela Lugosi. I was trying not to do how strong Not to overly do it but that scene I can do the constrictive of other all the vampire accidents pretty easy to do thanks to one and only Bela Lugosi. Okay, I'm gonna jump right to the next one. And this is right down your alley. So needless to say cannot be a little disappointed. Well you had good cause? To if I may say so your excellency, brilliant, daggerthrust, difficult angle. Kubrick movie.
Ken Tabacchi :You'll be very disappointed to me.
Michael Green :Okay, here we go again. Well you have good cause if I may say so Your Excellency, brilliant. daggerthrust, most difficult angle. Who is the most kiss? Who is the most yet direct From the movie, direct from the movie and the most kiss as the character if not one of the most but if not the most kiss assy character in a Kubrick movie Oh, and I should give at least two hints. So here's another one. He won an Academy Award for his performance
Ken Tabacchi :Peter Ustinov in Spartacus. Yes.
Michael Green :And that's either testament to my, my impersonation skills or to the fact that I just couldn't quite nail it right. I
Ken Tabacchi :was trying to place it in Barry Lyndon, but I knew it wasn't. And I was going back in time until I got to Spartacus, but the Academy Award thing Yeah, give it away. And I
Michael Green :thought if I did it word for word, you'd remember that moment where he was negotiating with Laurence Olivier his character. Okay, onto my last one, and not my finest moment, but
Ken Tabacchi :that was good and little, not easy. Not a softball, but doable.
Michael Green :Okay. And last one completely outside of Ken's realm, at least outside of the Kubrick universe, here we go. Touching cowboy culture. Or should I call you Mr. McClain
Ken Tabacchi :sounds like a James Bond double oh seven villain.
Michael Green :Meanwhile, the listeners are screaming don't you get the line. The line is so obvious. action packed adventure filmed in LA late 80s they blew the building up. The character's name is mentioned in the line.
Ken Tabacchi :Okay, one more time.
Michael Green :Gosh, I need to practice my impersonation. They suck Ken they just maybe it's just a movie I haven't seen I'm not doing it justice. Okay, again touching cowboy, touching or should I call you Mr. McClain Yeah, sorry I'm not getting the reference. Mr. McClain, Mr. Officer john McClane of the New York Police Department. Was that Robocop die hard
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah, I mean, I was gonna say Die Hard you know I've never actually seen it.
Michael Green :Oh my oh my that is your biggest chasm can classic just action shoot him up saw it twice in the theater? You're gonna have to add that to your
Ken Tabacchi :How big is your watch list on letterboxed
Michael Green :not as big as my IMDb watch list.
Ken Tabacchi :I've been through it yesterday and I came up with 362 movies.
Michael Green :Oh, nice. Oh,
Ken Tabacchi :no, I could watch a movie a day for a year.
Michael Green :Now I wish there was a way to export your list from IMDb but I guess I just have to manually do it. Huh? Okay, well, folks, I need to hone my skills. So I'm not Doing these actors these, these legendary people justice with my impersonations or Ken just needs to catch up on his mud holes. Mike's mud holes, Ken's chasms. Okay. Well, shall we just jump right into it?
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah, let's do that. I, I'd like to harken back to the short story that was the the inspiration for the script written by John Millius. Short Story The Heart of Darkness by Joseph Conrad. If that's okay, absolutely. So a little background on Conrad, I spoke to my Polish friend about how to pronounce this. So please excuse my pronunciation. And I'm reading out of the A Michael Matin compilation of Conrad short stories from Barnes noble classics. And he's a professor in the English English department of Warren Wilson College in Asheville, North Carolina. Jozef Teador Konrad Korzeniowski, was published under the anglicised pseudonym Joseph Conrad was born. December 1857, in South Eastern Russian occupied Poland. He moved to England in 1896. And had been commissioned on for for a company that was in the ivory trade. So he was he was on the Congo River and what he saw and might have done, gave him pause. And I feel like this this short story is a little bit of his confession about what he had seen. Hmm.
Michael Green :Confession slash, hallucinatory report, based on a combination of speculation and first hand report. Under the influence is essentially what I'm asked.
Ken Tabacchi :Well, it doesn't say, but I there are there There are pangs of guilt if you look if you read the short story, okay, so, and it and it also, I mentioned all this because it harkens to the movie, Millius did an amazing job of adapting this novel. It had been tried before. Did you know were you aware that Orson Welles or Orson Welles tried to make a radio special, right? Yep. And it didn't it didn't pan out didn't work. So it isn't been tried before. This is the first successful adaptation of this, this novel novella
Michael Green :and that was in 1939. He presented RKO with a was like 170 something page script. And then the studio turned it down and then they felt it was too expensive. And then they asked wells for more conventional script. And then guess what he did in return.
Ken Tabacchi :Citizen Kane.
Michael Green :And look where that's at.
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah, that worked out. But Apocalypse Now, regularly has appeared in the top 10 of movies all time. According to director polls currently sits at position number Six in the sight and sound poll by directors from 2010. I believe that there'll be a new poll in 2020. So I I, I'm interested to see how that pans out.
Michael Green :And is that updated every year, so does send years, every 10 years, unlike AFI, which is I believe, every year, so things kind of get bumped up or down.
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah, so you get the filtered version. Directors come and go,
Michael Green :but I believe Kane has been in the top five,
Ken Tabacchi :top three right now, I believe, tied through third place with Stanley Kubrick's 2001.
Michael Green :Well, good mention Ken. So like I mentioned before, this is the final cut three hours in one minute and I we discussed in a previous episode about length and there is plenty of reason to show the uncut, if you will, or in the version that Coppola intended for viewers to see because of the hallucinatory sort of surreal images before you in juxtapositions, and without the music that we'll get into a little bit later by the doors, combined with the cinematography and the lighting, there wouldn't be that result.
Ken Tabacchi :Vittorio, pronounce his last name, cinematographer.
Michael Green :Yeah, I don't want to muck that up.
Ken Tabacchi :And and I'm surprised to see that this was scored by Coppola himself. And Coppola and his his brother or brother in law, because his brother scored it.
Michael Green :I didn't know that Ken. Wow. The entire score
Ken Tabacchi :He's credited. Except for The Doors, you know, usage, right. And we talked about Morricone his use of the heartbeat in the thing, which came out in 1980. This was 79. And they did a heartbeat thing, as well. And there's a passage from the novel where it actually talks about heartbeats. So, so much from the novella has made it into this movie. The Shining came out in 1980. And Wendy Carlos did the exact same thing. So I don't know if it was just the same ideas coming together or if these guys kind of played off on each other. There's three movies that came out within a year of each other using heartbeats in the score. To show kind of a omniscient, presence Sure.
Michael Green :Sort of this impending doom unseen character. Sure. Interesting. Okay, well, before jumping into the meat and potatoes, I just thought, Well, here's some food for thought. With some with an essence of napalm, Ken you can and the folks listening to think about whether the the calamities of the production themselves contribute to the success of the film unlike, you know, say Heaven's Gate, and arguably much like the production of The Godfather.
Ken Tabacchi :Did you see the documentary Heart of Darkness that was put together from footage that his wife had had captured during the production
Michael Green :from Eleanor Coppola. She, in fact, shot things that he was unaware of. And when the dvd released upon the release, he was not happy with the result how it portrayed him. He
Ken Tabacchi :he did make a cameo to Cameo appearance.
Michael Green :I mean, it was so telling and you know, perhaps people would, who are watching him all this is showcasing the failure. But the movie is not a failure. it's it's a it's a movie that will be continued to be watched 50, 60 years from now on film schools. And I think her intention was to document the combination of joy that he's experienced as a director and getting this passion project out but also the the downfalls that he had
Ken Tabacchi :an issue so interesting that he's there's actually a candid conversation with him where he's, he's lamenting, he's like I'm making a terrible movie. This is gonna just suck so bad. And Brando came on and he was getting a million dollars a day. And he was overweight. And Martin Sheen had a heart attack. And the Philippine army who was borrowing they were borrowing the helicopters and pilots from would would frequently fly off without notice to go fight insurgents on another island. Right. Which was amazing, but I feel like this cut, you know, the first one is theorized theatrical and edited Redux was the kitchen sink. But this one that came out at night 2019 the final cut I believe is the best. It has the things that are needed to move the plot along and also tie back to the novel. And it does it doesn't have things that are superfluous.
Michael Green :Sure. Completely agree my man
Ken Tabacchi :Well, let me if I can To set up the background of the novel and then we can get into the movie, that's okay.
Michael Green :Sure. But before you do that, I just want to mention just you mentioned about Brando and I want to just make a quick connection to the heart to darkness with Brando because apparently, all there's a couple of issues Brando thought that COPPA still owed him money and to it reflected Brando's not non involvement in hearts of darkness was reflected in to a movie called Listen to me, Marlon that was made, which is recordings of Marlon Brando just just recording themselves just lamenting, and you know, just monologuing and there are moments when he reflects on his failures and one of them being how he behaved on the set of Apocalypse Now.
Ken Tabacchi :I was watching as I was watching this cut, I tried it. I thought in my mind about a million dollars million dollars a day. And it was like, Okay, this is proud. This scene was probably one There's two days, okay, I've seen three days worth of production here, you know? And didn't didn't, didn't Coppola back this movie himself, he like put up his own money
Michael Green :he did. Seven or 8 million. And
Ken Tabacchi :this this really was on the precipice, like he would have been ruined if this movie was a failure. It just, he was all in.
Michael Green :Right. And you know, you can't help but think that just after making the Godfather one and two that he wanted to, he was tempted to, I should say, to make a big budget movie, a war film, you know, with action adventure and very epic, just to sell out momentarily so he can subsequently make his passion projects now that he would have more money.
Ken Tabacchi :It's interesting that the two points to that. I don't actually consider it a war movie. I mean, think I'm nuts but I'll get to that later. A second. I watched The Outsiders, on a plane trip six months ago. And I remember it seeing it the first time and everyone in who's been through middle school has read the outsiders novel. And it was a solidly mediocre movie. Wasn't that it was Ralph macchio. But he had kind of an all star cast Patrick Swayze blossoming Tom Cruise. It was just solidly mediocre. And I thought I was like I was I was expecting something. Oh, you know, Apocalypse Now. level and it wasn't. And you think that's because look like apocalypse just took so much out of him. He was like, I just want to make a fun movie that's easy. And doesn't almost tear my soul apart.
Michael Green :Sort of like a side sort of my vacation movie like Robert Diaz does quite often. Yeah, but you know, same can be said with Scorsese and Raging Bull. Afterwards, he continues to, aside from kings of comedy you continue to make groundbreaking movies, and
Ken Tabacchi :I set the bar unreasonably high. Sure, by showing after Dr. Strangelove and after Kubrick continued to set the bar higher and higher and make greater and greater movies,
Michael Green :therefore making the four or five year hiatus in between justify,
Ken Tabacchi :He made the movies he wanted to make when he wanted to make them. Not all directors have that such a luxury.
Michael Green :So with all that mentioned, Ken, is this movie itself absurdist or commentary on the absurdity of war? I'll let you think about that you can answer now you can answer later.
Ken Tabacchi :I'm biased at this point because I read the source material just this week in preparation for this. And so in my mind, I see all the connections and tie backs in the script to the heart of darkness.
Michael Green :And like you mentioned, john Milius' dialogue you know, a couple have also said and I was watching he the Coppola at the Tribeca Film. festival in April of last year. And he mentioned when people come up and said that line was so great. He immediately gives credit to john Milius, which lines up. Well, you know, the smell of napalm in the morning mostly comes to him. But that's his immediate responses to credit to john Milius for making that memorable dialogue.
Ken Tabacchi :His name was by the way Kill Gore.
Michael Green :Yeah, and it was gonna be something more obvious. Even more obvious in that I think it was like blood, something but but Kilgore to me is pretty overt.
Ken Tabacchi :That's a commentary on the insanity of war right but more so. The the internal conflict that human beings have to overcome inside of all of us. The general at the beginning says there's a conflict between good and evil in every human heart and good does not always try and he alludes to what Lincoln said the better angels of our nature. I believe that was specifically put in because Lincoln can infer slaves which can infer, you know, the colonization and imperialism on the African continent, which is what the novel is all about. So they were trying to adapt this novel Heart of Darkness to a movie, and they set it in a war context. They transposed it in time and place, but the themes are all there. And so the insanity is, look, you. Brando says this. Brando admits this in a in a speech to Martin Sheen near the end, where they had gone into a village to inoculate the children for polio, and they came back and they saw that the NVA had, had hacked off the arms of all the children and left them in a little pile. And he was first disgusted. And then he realized this is brilliant. This is genius. If you have people that are that can be humans and family men yet do this kind of horrible act. You're going to win The war and that's the part of war that you have to overcome. You have to accept the Heart of Darkness that's inside of everyone. The the historical savage nature of humanity. Sure, if you're going to win the war, and the people that don't go crazy in the heart of darkness, devours them and destroys them. Okay? All the people on the boat died did not accept the Heart of Darkness the two who did Lance, Captain Willard accepted the heart of darkness and they survived. And so the same is with Kilgore. You show this insanity. He says, You know what? Someday this war is gonna end and he says this nostalgically, like what am I going to do after this? This is the best time of my life. And so that's just the insanity of war. And he will never get killed. Bombs are going off all around him. He stands there, unflinching, everyone else is diving in a hole "incoming!".
Michael Green :And we're talking about practical effects Ken eat even flinch. You can imagine how many takes or did was Was he just the pro? To do it on the first or second take, you know with using?
Ken Tabacchi :I don't know, but it was it was it's great. It's really great. And then with the whole surfing thing again with the insanity, sure they steal the surfboard and he spends all this time searching for it in the air and broadcasting My goodness. What a great character, unforgettable, like unforgettable characters in cinema history.
Michael Green :Yeah, and I regret not having seen in the theater. However, there are some revival houses. I mean, it doesn't even have to. I'm sure it won't take too long to come to West Hollywood again for a showcase or an anniversary release. But it has been 40 years. So hopefully I don't have to wait to the 50th to see it on the big screen.
Ken Tabacchi :I do recommend that listeners go and read the source material. I've been trying to do this for all the Kubrick movies that I can get my hands on the source material, but it really is the second time I've read it. The first time I didn't get it at all the second time it clicked for me.
Michael Green :Now what do you how So clicking for you? And then how many years in between
Ken Tabacchi :two years? I don't know, I just got the allusions. I could see Oh, this is where you pick this part of that script out. It's it's considered a very, you know, the most broadly influential work in the history of British literature. I mean, there's so many attributes, rich symbolism, intricate plotting, prose, psychological insights, the moral significance and a bit of metaphysical suggestiveness definitely have made it so popular. Let me just read a little segment out of what Conrad had to say about this whole thing. I'm quoting from A Michael Matin's little introduction to the short stories, yet well, the text is widely recognized as indictment of the greed and ruthlessness that generally drove European imperialism in Africa. Most readers are unfamiliar with the fact that the setting is the event in Imperial history. So uniquely horrific in its sheer scale suffering and death, that it has been termed the African Holocaust. As Conrad himself would characterize the situation in the Congo, nearly a quarter of a century after his novella published, it was the villest scramble for loot that ever disfigured the history of human conscience. Wow. So with that backdrop, Apocalypse Now
Michael Green :and the quality of those words on that summary, you know, about what is essentially at the core of this film. And when you see all the images and the fiery reds and yellows, and the dark shadows, and you see everything just kind of like almost like this swirly, hallucinogenic haze, you're you can't help but think This, this is something that is that is clearly inspired by someone who was doing drugs.
Ken Tabacchi :drug use is definitely featured the soldiers do marijuana and they also do hallucinogens like LSD. But this ties back to one of the scenes that made it to the final cut the French plantation, you may say, this is totally outside the where the story is going. This is just why is this? Why is this scene even in the movie but, it's totally irrelevant. Because, one, it lets the French tell the Americans like why, you know, why are you in this futile quagmire? Look, why don't you learn from our mistakes, you know, we totally screwed up. But these guys are living in almost a time capsule. They had been there for 70 years. So that 68 that puts it about the time 70 years. It puts you at about the time of Conrad's writing of the novel. And they're in this time capsule and they're trying to maintain their plantation and French food and they've got a Vietnamese chef who doesn't even speak speak French, but also the the widower seduces Martin Sheen and I think that's supposed to represent the final seduction of Martin Sheen into accepting the Heart of Darkness or she tells him you know, she screws him but then she tells him there are two of you, one that kills and one that loves. So he's she's allowing him to take over let his dark side quote unquote take over when it needs to and admit that there are there's this duality of human nature. Kubrick covered it in full metal jacket. remark. Matthew Modine has a little speech with with the generals Why do you have a piece pen and then born to kill on your helmet? Well, I think I'm trying to talk about the duality of man, sir there's a lot so that theme is was covered as well. But if you look at what is she, what do they do? on the bed? They're smoking opium? who smokes opium in 1968? They know they do pot and they do LSD. Sure so better harkens back to the Opium Wars and Britain's imperialism over Asia, which takes us back to this which is which leads a string right to this this conflict in Vietnam.
Michael Green :Did you feel that these themes are bubbling underneath the surface or pretty for sure, I think I think Milius knew what he was doing. Because to me I don't see that just right there on the surface. I feel that as a viewer, I'm watching this movie and I'm seeing the images before me and the you know, the duality as you mentioned, and the the the personalities that are kind of pulled apart you know, one's one's anti war and one's perhaps you know, the the demons within or deep within. And in Martin Sheen's character, you feel that right away, thanks to how this film is shot with the production itself and the staff who did such a great job but I never felt that it was very obvious, and that it was spoon feeding me. It was spoon feeding me these images to make me feel or have a certain viewpoint about the commentary of the war, or anti war, or any kind of social context. I
Ken Tabacchi :mean, that that's part of it for sure. The thing I love about this movie is there's that interpretation, but there's other interpretations that equally that are equally well. And so they're both correct, that there's the conflict within humans and the tie back to the novel. But also, it's the fact that it's so anti war. I feel like the war is secondary though, it's just a it's just a means to tell the story. It's not about it's not Platoon. It's not Full Metal Jacket. It's not about war. It's just a story within a war.
Michael Green :And, you know, even more irony that enriches that is, you know, the apparent victory in the helicopter battle, you know, would be followed by the eventual defeat in the In the original Wagner opera the Valkyries arrive at a point of apparent victory, which layered results in defeat. So, yeah, it's just they insert these these ironic elements in it to put a spotlight on the absurdity of war
Ken Tabacchi :for sure.
Michael Green :Oh, by the way, slightly off topic, but did you know Steve McQueen and Brando knew Capello was self financing and still insisted with their requested salaries? It's kind of mind blowing.
Ken Tabacchi :I, the second The last time I watched it, not this time I had noticed that there was credited to Laurence Fishburne.
Michael Green :Yeah. And I only knew that back in my video store days because my brother pointed out to me.
Ken Tabacchi :He was 14 at the time, right? He was playing a 17, he's a big boy. He's playing a 17 year old.
Michael Green :He's 14 thing he has a very emotional moment. You know? He lied about his age, by the way, don't they? Oh, okay. Okay.
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah, cuz he's a big man. And so He you know he probably matured very early. It's interesting dynamic between him and the riverboat captain. He's like an uncle to him. He treats him as his nephew. He treats them specially you know when him in the mechanic are fighting. He yells at he yells at the content shaft chef. Yeah, he yells at chef says, keep your keep your trap shut. not picking on him.
Michael Green :Right. So I got a question about Kurtz if you don't mind me, kind of shifting a little bit. Now, in the movie, the main character played by Martin Sheen has sent a kill Kurtz in the source novel, The main character is sent to rescue him. Why such a gigantic change?
Ken Tabacchi :I think it makes sense in the context of a movie that's taking place in the war. But there there are, there are a lot of parallels. If you look at the general in when he goes to meet you Harrison Ford, and the other two guys in the general says he's out there. Without any restraint, or human decency. What and what Martin seems finds out by reading the dossier is Kurtz was winning it and he was winning it his way. And that pissed off the generals. He wanted to be in the airborne, which means a change of rank and he would never get higher than what Colonel, you would never become a general. He gave up the political position for himself for the altruistic thing. And that scared people. So this is in the novel to it. Colonel Kurtz was an ivory trader, he was the best he brought in more IV than all the others combined, or as much ivory as all the others combined. And there's jealousy you see it, all the other the other managers are jealous of him. And they make disparaging comments, they pull up and they see this huge pile of ivory that he's collected. And they go, Oh, it's probably fossil. You know, they just they're jealous. upstaging your bosses, in general is, is a bad idea in business. You know, they're going to be jealous and they're going to start poking at you. Oh, sure. So I think that's what happened here.
Michael Green :Yeah. So, you know, I was going to mention how the mysterious aura that kind of looms over while Martin Sheen character recalls, Colonel Kurtz is highly decorated past. It's like that signal of impending sort of doom, or something that's just completely reprehensible.
Ken Tabacchi :In the novel, Kurtz says very few words yet, everyone speaks so highly of him so you don't meet or judge him. You just see him when he dies. And, and everyone else's impression of him is all that you go. He didn't speak very much. And same in the in the in the book, I'm sorry, same in the movie. You see him at the end, he says a little bit, and then he dies. So it's more like the cult of personality. Not, you know, for you to judge what he did, it's how others see him.
Michael Green :So does that mean his asking salary equates to about a couple hundred thousand per word? A man a few words. Just pay me about 4 million. That's all I'm all for. You gotta give it to me, even though I made how much I made 2 million on Superman. No, I mean, I only mentioned that because you combine just the troubled production to begin with, you know, sad to say, but Coppola still saw through and made sure that what was happening, all the symbolism was, was correctly according to how he wanted to was correctly presented, so that we can have a variety of interpretations.
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah, for sure. Like you mentioned, just the imagery. I hadn't thought about that. But now that you mentioned it, yes, the imagery spinning fan on the ceiling, like into the helicopters. Martin Sheen wakes up. And here's the guilt factor that was in the novel as well. Since I wanted a mission and for my sins, they gave me one. We don't know what his sins are. We don't give any of his backstory when the MPs show up not MPs, but the the guys from the base show up with orders to take him to the airfield. Sir, we have orders to escort you to the airfield. He says what were the charges? Sir? What did I do? No charges, sir. We're just we're just exporting your we have orders to take you. So immediately, he's like, I don't know what he did. He had killed several people. He had worked by himself. Maybe he had he had murdered some people. Maybe he was a spy. But his conscience was ragging on him and the big scene in the beginning where, you know, he gets himself drunk and Martel and by the way, He replaces canteen contents with Martell throughout the film. But he punches the mirror and he gets his hand bloody, and he's he's crying. That was real, right? Like he really got drunk. And Coppola really egged him on and he was going through some, some emotional thing. I don't know if it was a drunk moment of clarity or guilt. And he literally cried. He wasn't faking it. That was real emotion.
Michael Green :I believe up until Apocalypse Now Redux the those that scene in in its entirety was not shown.
Ken Tabacchi :Yeah.
Michael Green :And so I think it's very reflective you know, maybe I mean, is it a combination of being the if you will method director likes a William Feedkin who literally slaps his actor sometimes to get a performance either
Ken Tabacchi :shoots a gun in their ear
Michael Green :or wasn't necessary just to kind of get them to look you know it okay you can't do it to Brando but you can do it machine up and coming right. And you can do that without making it appear that you are being this taskmaster who is putting your Actors through torture. They're just trying to get this little light inside of them to glow this acting light to be in alignment with what he desires.
Ken Tabacchi :He just encouraged them. If you watch that documentary, there's a there's behind the scenes, while fvm Films being while that scene is being shot, and you hear Coppola in the background, egging him on, to get more out of him.
Michael Green :And to be fair, Martin Sheen did admit that he was out of shape he, he perhaps thought it wouldn't be there wouldn't be such a higher requirement for the role. But you know what, kudos to Coppola for keeping it within reason. And still getting a very good performance out of him. You know, I really like how in the opening that cross dissolve with Martin Sheen, those like transparencies, you just get the sense of just this. What's going to happen in terms of a revelation like this fiery revelation all scored to foreshadows Little bit. Yep. Without giving too much away, and it's very appropriate.
Ken Tabacchi :Oh, by the way, I mean, need to mention, spoilers abound.
Michael Green :Yeah, perhaps I'll do that beforehand Ken spoilers you know what I listen to podcasts, anytime they they put the movie that I watched the movie first and I'm I listen to the podcast, but we should include that indeed. Okay. You know that shell shock moment from chef was just so utterly convincing and I think that plays a significant role in another undercurrent in the movie which is like sort of this, this insanity coupled with this drug fueled mindset. You just can't help but feel that that's the perpetual undercurrent and it's not gratuitous at all.
Ken Tabacchi :There There are those who were destroyed by the river in the heart of darkness and Chef was one of them. Because he was he was moral he couldn't. He couldn't fathom why they had to go all the all this way to kill one of their own guys. It was just insanity to him and it drove him crazy. And placing him in New Orleans was perfect for two reasons. One, you know, it was about the cooking and stuff with enticing with the French. And he could see the fact that he could speak French. However, you know, have you been to New Orleans? Have you seen all these little shops where they're selling these Voodoo trinkets, kind of as a tourist? Well, that was common in New Orleans due to the Caribbean influence, and then the slave trade. So the Africans brought their religion there. And so the whole it'll, it ties it back to the novel and the African Congo quite nicely.
Michael Green :Very nice. Very nicely said. Again, well, shall we take a little break,
Ken Tabacchi :let's take a break.
Michael Green :Well, that's a lovely wrap with part one. As I mentioned in a couple of episodes, we'll go ahead and publish Part Two But in between, we'd like to just kind of return back to a few things. It's away from the Saturation levels of COVID-19. Not that any previous episode contained any of that. But we'd like to just kind of go back to the old basics of talking about a movie, loving it, and we thought we'd do a comedy, or perhaps something that's topical with the current times without being political. So thanks again guys for joining. Let us know if you have any comments and correction corner love to hear what mistakes we made. And I'm sure there's a small handful, at the very least. So Till next time,